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00:00 This whole record, like, self-empowerment is a massive, massive part of it.
00:05 I mean, that song was really just about like the moment that I understood
00:09 that I was starting to feel self-love for the first time, like truly.
00:12 Which is a very overwhelming experience.
00:15 Hi, I'm Ali and I'm joined by Caleb Shomo from
00:24 Bare Tooth for the latest in Enemies in Conversation series.
00:27 How are you?
00:28 I am fantastic. How are you doing?
00:30 Good. How have your, you've just done a couple of festival dates in Europe. How have they been?
00:34 They have been outstanding. Yeah, we've been out for about three weeks,
00:38 just going all over the place, just rocking as hard as we can.
00:42 And how have the new songs been going over live?
00:45 They've been going really well. We've been playing the three new ones that have all been out,
00:49 off the new record so far, and way better than I could have imagined. I mean, to be honest,
00:57 I feel like they've been getting the best response of any songs in the set. So that's
01:00 got to be a good sign.
01:02 We're here today to talk about your new album, The Surface, which is out on October 13th. I know
01:07 you've done some planning ahead of time. How much had you planned out and how far in advance?
01:12 It kind of depends. So I had the title of the record, I've had the title down for probably
01:20 four or five years, maybe longer. Yeah, I don't know. I like to kind of have the whole
01:26 thing kind of laid out as far ahead as I can. But to be fair, the subject matter of the record
01:33 didn't really come up until it just kind of happened. So the main thing I knew I wanted
01:40 after I finished the previous album, Below, was I wanted The Surface to just be the polar opposite
01:47 in every way, shape and form. And I kind of at least vowed to myself that Below would be like
01:52 the darkest, kind of saddest record I ever make in my life, because it was pretty intense. So
01:58 after that, it was about a year and a half kind of process of writing all the songs, and
02:06 it really just sort of like revealed itself over that year and a half.
02:09 And what made you choose The Surface as the title?
02:15 I mean, well, really, so like our first five albums, and I guess the EP, are all kind of like
02:21 one run-on sentence in succession, but it's "sick, disgusting, aggressive disease below
02:26 the surface," which to me is really the story of what they're all about, which is me
02:31 dealing with what it means to feel depressed and anxious and the things that I kind of deal with
02:38 and some of the way my chemicals fire, you know? So The Surface was just the way it ended, and kind
02:46 of like to me, all I knew is I really wanted it to be me bringing some new things to the surface
02:55 in my own life. And yeah, thankfully, those ended up being some pretty cool things.
03:00 Like you just mentioned that your work has always sort of really delved into like your
03:06 experiences with mental health, and you haven't been, like you don't shy away from talking about
03:10 the really difficult parts of that. But on this album, you have a more like positive outlook.
03:14 What kind of sparked that shift?
03:16 I mean, honestly, the pandemic. Like for most people, it was a really intense emotional period
03:25 in both directions. And so, you know, "Below" was like the period piece of being in the depth of it.
03:34 And yeah, it was pretty sad. And I had a really hard time, as I'm sure most of us did.
03:40 That being said, though, I don't know, I kind of hit this point where I just realized with my life,
03:46 I had two very distinct paths in front of me. It was continue on, you know, living a very unhealthy,
03:55 unloving, self-destructive life. And who knows how long that lasts? Probably not very.
04:02 And even if it does last, it's going to be really painful and unfulfilling and difficult. Or I got
04:10 to kind of, you know, look myself in the eyes and make some very tough choices, but choices that are
04:18 going to just be practical to make my life a little bit better and a little bit happier. Some
04:24 of those being just taking control of my mental health, which is something I've always dealt with,
04:30 as you said. I've covered that for four records in an EP now, and it hasn't all been great.
04:36 But yeah, I mean, just like for most people, the pandemic, coming out of that, I just felt like
04:44 I had to do something different and take advantage of the life that I've still been given. Because
04:49 when you kind of get a massive part of that taken away, and for myself and for the entire
04:58 music community, the live show was gone. And even putting out records and doing things that we do
05:05 the same way, it was just completely changed. So yeah, that really sparked a shift. And I was like,
05:13 "Life is short. I want to make the most of it."
05:16 And when it came to writing the lyrics, was it sort of challenging to translate that outlook
05:22 into the lyrics?
05:23 I mean, I think I took a bit of a different approach with the surface. Lyrically, I really
05:29 wanted to focus on the song as a whole. And what I mean by that is the lyrics and the song as in,
05:36 "What am I trying to say? What does this mean?" For most of the earlier stuff, almost all of it,
05:44 my process was kind of like I would write the music first, and then I'd kind of write lyric
05:49 and melody to that, and then go back to the music and kind of adjust it to the lyric and melody,
05:54 then maybe go back and forth, whatever, until it was done. But for this record, the main thing was,
06:01 "What am I trying to say? What am I really trying to get across?" And I would make sure that that
06:09 was at the forefront of everything. And then the lyric and melody was written first, and the music
06:14 kind of came after that. So that shift really just made the songwriting process feel a lot more
06:22 focused and just more focused on, "What am I trying to say?" And that made for a little bit
06:32 of a different experience.
06:33 And then how did that sort of more positive outlook impact the music writing?
06:40 It's wild after so long of writing really sad songs to have this canvas to work around,
06:48 which is, for the most part, pretty uplifting lyrics. I'm really focused on hope and forward
06:57 thinking and just a lot of new things in my life. So I think it made the music process
07:01 just different. Not necessarily easier, but a lot more satisfying at the end of the day.
07:10 I mean, I went through some crazy periods making this record, specifically with the music. I mean,
07:15 there was a while where I had most of the songs, the lyrics, the melody, what it's about, written.
07:21 And yeah, I went through this whole soul-searching, "What am I doing? How do I translate this
07:29 thing?" for a few months. But at the end of the day, when it all came together,
07:35 and I just realized, just quit overthinking it and just do what you got to do, it was really fun.
07:44 And I kind of tried to strip the fear away of what fits in a Beartooth song, what doesn't fit
07:50 in a Beartooth song, and just write music that serves the lyric in the song. So yeah, it was cool.
07:55 I think since the beginning, Beartooth has always had really huge choruses in your songs,
08:00 and I feel like they've just gotten bigger and bigger over time. What sort of goes through your
08:05 mind when you're writing a chorus? I have no idea sometimes. That is like,
08:11 it all just kind of happens at once. Rarely do I write the melody or the lyric first. I know some
08:19 people kind of freestyle melodies and put lyrics to it, or some people have lyrics that they try
08:23 and fit in. It's all just kind of one thing, and I really wish I could explain it, but it just kind
08:30 of happens in my head. And then I put it out. I mean, most of the songs for this record I would
08:37 write kind of just in my head and on my notes app beforehand, or maybe voice notes. It just kind of
08:44 comes out, and I put it down, and I don't know, that's it. I really do wish I had a better answer,
08:51 that it was more methodical, but nah, that's just kind of it. It just kind of happens, and
08:57 then yeah, you keep tweaking and tailoring until it feels good, and that's a bare-toothed chorus,
09:02 I guess. And your most recent single is "Might Love Myself." How did that sort of come together?
09:08 I was listening to a lot of Ariana Grande. Oh, wow. Yeah, and it's all just like super empowering,
09:16 and I mean, she's just rad, and those songs are crazy good on another level of songwriting and
09:24 vibe, and this whole record, like self-empowerment is a massive, massive part of it. You know,
09:31 I mean, that song was really just about the moment that I understood that I was starting to feel
09:36 self-love for the first time, like truly, which is a very overwhelming experience. So I don't know.
09:43 Shout out to Ariana. You're rad, and you're empowering as hell, and yeah, I don't know,
09:52 it just kind of happened. I was in that groove, and I remember just listening to
09:55 one of her records while I was walking to get coffee, and I was just really vibing on a groove,
10:01 and then the whole thing just happened when I got back to my studio, and the lyrics just came,
10:08 and the melody, and it all, and I remember just kind of putting some chords down just to record
10:13 over and just hit record, and it went, and then yeah, that was it. Kind of like first draft of
10:20 the chorus was the chorus, and then I just built around it, but yeah, I mean, like feeling
10:25 self-love and being able to write about it and like capture that kind of moment all at once was
10:33 very special. I think it made for a pretty special song. Yeah, I was going to ask about,
10:38 because I feel like even on "Blowin'" on this album too, there's a lot of pop influence. I
10:41 know on "Riptide" you had a lot of pop influence. Oh yeah, absolutely. Were there any other like
10:44 sort of pop artists to influence the album? Sure. NSYNC, way up there. NSYNC rules. I mean,
10:52 Britney. I don't know. I mean, the list goes on. One Direction, huge one. I've always loved pop.
10:59 I think that like pop writing, when it's done well, is just some of the most impressive stuff
11:06 to me. Like a really, really good hook, great lyric, great melody. It's just pretty mind-blowing
11:13 when it all comes together, in my opinion. So yeah, I just, I wanted to like let that part of
11:19 me out more. I mean, that's been around since the beginning of "Beartooth." I mean, I think
11:24 that's what I guess makes the choruses what they are. People have always, you know, talked about
11:31 the choruses in "Beartooth," but I think it's just because, yeah, pop has been such a big influence
11:36 on me in my life for a very long time. So it's bled out, but with this record, I wanted to just
11:41 be a bit more fearless in what I was doing and more focused. And yeah, it's like, just let the
11:48 pop out, you know? Just let it go. - It's still a heavy record, though. I feel like there's a lot
11:53 of moments of real heaviness sitting alongside moments of real lightness, like "Sunshine."
11:57 Was there any concern about stitching those together, kind of? - I mean, yeah, at first.
12:03 I mean, it was, when the record started writing itself, or when I started writing it, it started
12:09 writing itself, whatever happened. You know, "Riptide" was the first one, and then "Sunshine"
12:17 was actually the second song I wrote. And that song is very specifically about just being stuck
12:25 and wanting to get out of that and experiencing what that feels like, that in the middle of this
12:32 gigantic shift in my life. Yeah, I wanted the music to kind of capture that, and it just sort
12:40 of happened. I wrote the chorus first, and then the verses, the lyrics all came after.
12:48 But musically, I thought the only way was to just go completely all out in those moments and how I
12:56 was feeling. So it's kind of written from two perspectives. I wrote the song in Los Angeles,
13:02 which is where I live now, but I've lived, born and raised in Columbus, Ohio, which has notably
13:10 horrific winters, and I am not a big fan of the winter anymore. And yeah, so the verses are
13:19 supposed to feel like something from Bearty's first album, when I was stuck in this cold basement in
13:27 Columbus trying to explore my depression and what that feels like and what that means. And then
13:33 I wanted the choruses and all that to feel like the brightness of when I landed in California
13:38 after I decided to move there, and this complete eye-opening experience of, "Okay, so seasonal
13:45 depression is something I can kind of control, but it's going to take a big painful move."
13:51 So yeah, that long-winded response is how "Sunshine" is what it is.
13:56 Well, actually, I think one of the things that is so great about the lyrics on that record is that
14:01 it really talks about, even though it's a positive outlook, how much effort it takes into being
14:10 happy and loving yourself. Did it feel sort of cathartic to write those lyrics?
14:16 Incredibly. It's always a cathartic experience to write Beartooth records with whatever
14:25 kind of viewpoint they're from, some obviously being more painful than others. But
14:29 I mean, making this record truly... I mean, it's just something I never thought was going to happen
14:40 in my life, candidly. I've talked about it in other albums, I've talked about it pretty openly
14:45 in interviews. My kind of the dark side of what I deal with sometimes, I've felt like it's always
14:51 been at the forefront and been the most powerful energy in my life. So to learn, like you said,
14:59 how to kind of put the effort in to be able to control that and deal with it, it just made for
15:06 a really, really empowering experience making this record. Most of the time, I'd finish a song
15:13 and be listening to it, and I was like, "I cannot believe I wrote this." And I don't know, I mean,
15:19 Beartooth is the most intimate experience that I have with music. It is really... Beartooth and me
15:27 are just kind of one thing, and it's just me talking about exactly what I'm going through
15:35 with no filters at that moment. So to have 11 songs that are like all this story about
15:42 either wanting to learn to be happier and putting the effort to deal with mental health or
15:51 physical health or whatever it may be, to have all of this in front of me, at the end of the day,
15:57 I look at that experience and it's going to be, I mean, probably the most... One of the most
16:03 important experiences I will ever have because it really laid the foundation for me deciding that
16:12 I'm going to put in the effort for the rest of my life to try and live happier and make the most of
16:17 what I got and just deal with the things that I'm going to deal with forever, which is depression,
16:22 anxiety, the things I've always talked about. But I do believe there's a way that I can
16:26 have those things in my life, but have a better toolkit to deal with them.
16:31 And yeah, so the whole writing process really brought that up.
16:35 I also wanted to ask how you landed on the pink aesthetic for the album.
16:38 It was the vibe. I mean, I don't know. There was a few things. So for one,
16:45 "Below" was like this really deep, dark purple, and it was just so brutal and sad and gruesome.
16:57 So I was like, "All right, let's go with this really bright, loud pink."
17:02 And also, I just remember one of the first days I was working in Los Angeles before I moved there.
17:08 I mean, there was just the most beautiful, really bright pink sunset. And yeah, I don't know. It was
17:15 just kind of like a no-brainer. I was like, "This has to be it." Just the most obviously good vibes,
17:24 happy. I just want it to be completely different than anything else I've done before. And yeah,
17:30 pink was the color. Are there any songs on the record that you're really excited for people to
17:35 hear, you're really proud of? Oh my goodness. I mean, so many. I don't know. I'm excited for
17:42 people to hear the twists and turns. "The Better Me" is a song that I am incredibly proud of.
17:52 And the way it ended up with being a feature with Hardy is wild. I've never done a feature before
17:58 on my record. No one's ever... It's always just been all me. And I mean, the songwriting process
18:05 of that was all me. But I mean, when he laid his vocal down, it completely changed the energy of
18:11 the whole thing. So I'm very excited for people to hear that. The thing I'm most excited about
18:18 is the end of the album. For people who haven't listened to Beartooth, and go listen to them if
18:26 you want, they're not going to make you feel good. But the last songs on all the Beartooth records,
18:33 they're always just kind of like a distillation of exactly what the record really means and what
18:38 I'm truly feeling. And yeah, they're generally speaking incredibly sad for every record prior.
18:47 But for this record, it's completely different. I didn't want to do that again. And it just wasn't...
18:52 It wouldn't have made sense. So yeah, I just kind of skipped the part of doing that really,
19:00 really sad, brutal ending, and just left it at kind of the most positive and hopeful song that
19:08 I've ever written in my career. And that is really, really exciting for me. Are there any
19:13 songs that you think are going to surprise listeners? So many. My goodness. From the get-go.
19:20 Yeah, I think "The Better Me" is definitely going to be a surprise. I think, I mean,
19:25 if people haven't heard it yet, "Might Love Myself" is definitely a bit of a departure for us.
19:30 "Look the Other Way" is definitely a bit of a surprise. Having more of kind of like a stripped
19:34 down, like acoustic song in the middle of the album, that's very different for Beartooth.
19:40 "My New Reality" is a completely different vibe. I worked with a guy named Story, who does
19:46 mostly pop and hip hop. And yeah, we like really dove into that. And then I kind of
19:55 flipped it into a Beartooth song. But yeah, that's a way different flavor. I mean,
20:01 the ending, I think, is a way different flavor. Almost the whole record, other than maybe like
20:06 track one, is pretty different. Yeah. "My New Reality" is really interesting,
20:10 because I feel like that one starts off kind of like more pop leaning and gets like
20:13 progressively heavier as it goes on. Absolutely. Yeah, that song was really,
20:17 really cool. And so the important thing for me at the ending of the record is that it is me like
20:24 really manifesting a new reality for myself, and you know, for lack of a better term,
20:30 and to be extra corny. But yeah, that song specifically, that's why I wanted to work
20:36 with somebody who is in the hip hop world, because that is so like, I am the shit. And like, that's
20:45 where you come from when you write those songs. And I've never in my life written a song from
20:49 that place. So it was cool to work with a lyricist on, you know, we'd kind of come up with ideas,
20:56 and I'd try and say something. He's like, "No, that's not how you say that." And like,
20:59 here's a way cooler way to say that, and like how to deliver it. And it really ended up
21:06 being something super special, way different for a record. And yeah, it's just all about empowerment.
21:13 And I found a lot of empowerment working with somebody else who's like, you know, that's kind
21:20 of like what their career is more built on. And I'm here for it. It was rad. And you're coming
21:26 up on 10 years of Beartooth being a band. Yeah. Wow. That's great. What are your goals for the
21:33 next 10 years? I mean, the main goal is just be present in what's going on. I think it's been
21:43 very tough to do that sometimes. But to me, that's just what I want to happen. You know,
21:51 wherever we go, or whatever we do, like I, you know, I have ambitions. And I think we're going
21:55 to do some really cool shows. And we already have. And we've done stuff crazier than I could
21:59 have even imagined. But for the most part, I just want to be there while it's happening. It's so
22:05 easy to look at until we achieve this thing, until we headline this festival, this show, this
22:12 whatever, sell this many records, then I'll be happy. It's so easy to get lost while that's
22:19 happening. And I mean, I can say I've played, you know, I think over like, nearly 2000 shows in my
22:25 career or something. And I have not been there for all of them. You know, a lot of them have,
22:31 they're done. And I'm like, what just happened? Even, you know, I've had really big, important
22:36 shows that I barely even remember, because I had so much stress. I was thinking about other things,
22:41 I was thinking about the future, I was so worried about the past, whatever it may be. So like,
22:46 my main goal for the next 10 years is to just be present when I'm on stage, just experience the
22:54 whole Beartooth thing as it happens, and just try and have like a really good memory of it.
23:00 And but yeah, who knows what happens? I really don't know. I mean, usually it's been about every
23:09 two years I make a record and they all seem to be pretty wildly different. So we'll, we'll see
23:16 what happens in two years. But as long as I'm happy and I'm present, then I'll be content with
23:21 whatever I'm doing. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk today. Yeah, thanks for
23:24 having me. It's been awesome.
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