In this "A List" discussion, Don Cheadle sits down with The Black List's Franklin Leonard to talk about his favorite jazz solos of all time. From Miles Davis' "Summertime" to Jaco Pastorius' "Portraits of Tracy," the actor breaks down what those solos meant to him and how it influenced his life and career. Don also opens up about choosing acting over music, almost getting his own "Fresh Prince" spin-off and what he hopes to see for his future.
SAG-AFTRA members are currently on strike; as part of the strike, union actors are not promoting their film and TV projects. This interview was conducted prior to the strike.
Director: Alice Park
Director of Photography: Matt Krueger
Editor: Katie Wolford; Matt Colby
Host: Franklin Leonard
Producer: Juliet Lopez, Funmi Sunmonu
Line Producer: Romeeka Powell
Associate Producer: Emebeit Beyene
Production Manager: Andressa Pelachi and Kevin Balash
Production Coordinator: Kariesha Kidd
Director, Video Talent : Lauren Mendoza
Camera Operator: Shay Eberle-Gunst and Oliver Lukacs
Sound : Kara Johnson
Production Assistant: Fernando Barajas and Mike Kritzell
Set Designer: Morgan Roberts
Post Production Supervisor: Edward Taylor
Post Production Coordinator: Jovan James
Supervising Editor: Kameron Key
Assistant Editor: Billy Ward
SAG-AFTRA members are currently on strike; as part of the strike, union actors are not promoting their film and TV projects. This interview was conducted prior to the strike.
Director: Alice Park
Director of Photography: Matt Krueger
Editor: Katie Wolford; Matt Colby
Host: Franklin Leonard
Producer: Juliet Lopez, Funmi Sunmonu
Line Producer: Romeeka Powell
Associate Producer: Emebeit Beyene
Production Manager: Andressa Pelachi and Kevin Balash
Production Coordinator: Kariesha Kidd
Director, Video Talent : Lauren Mendoza
Camera Operator: Shay Eberle-Gunst and Oliver Lukacs
Sound : Kara Johnson
Production Assistant: Fernando Barajas and Mike Kritzell
Set Designer: Morgan Roberts
Post Production Supervisor: Edward Taylor
Post Production Coordinator: Jovan James
Supervising Editor: Kameron Key
Assistant Editor: Billy Ward
Category
🛠️
LifestyleTranscript
00:00 - What?
00:00 - You wanna do the Kevin Hart thing?
00:01 - I'm trying.
00:02 Kevin did it, I thought maybe I could do it.
00:04 - Do you wanna try again?
00:05 - I--
00:06 - Can we get a take two?
00:07 - I don't, I think--
00:08 - No, let's try again.
00:08 - I think we can move on.
00:09 (upbeat music)
00:11 I'm Franklin Leonard, and this is A List.
00:15 Today's guest is Jon Cheadle.
00:17 - My man.
00:21 - All right, I have to start with an apology.
00:26 - I like it.
00:27 - So, the thing about this show is that I ask people
00:29 for a list, I use that list because I have a personal
00:32 interest in the subject, in this case, jazz solos.
00:35 I'm a jazz fan, not terribly musically gifted.
00:38 You, however, grew up playing jazz, have said that
00:42 playing jazz gives you more joy than acting,
00:44 which you've been doing for a while now.
00:46 So I'm wrenching that into you giving me a list
00:50 of your favorite jazz solos so I can have somebody
00:52 who knows a lot tell me, someone who does not,
00:56 what I should be listening to.
00:57 - I don't know that I know a lot.
00:58 - Okay.
00:59 - But I know what I like, which I don't put on any
01:02 sort of sliding scale as being better or worse
01:05 than what others think.
01:05 - I think that's a wise approach.
01:06 - I understand my tastes and I like them,
01:08 and they're very eclectic and varied and I listen
01:11 to a lot of different music, and inside of what people
01:13 would call the jazz realm.
01:15 - Do you want to just start with one of them, though?
01:18 Where should we start?
01:19 - Let's start foundationally, most people.
01:21 When they think of jazz and what's synonymous with jazz,
01:24 they obviously think of Miles.
01:26 So maybe Miles' solo on Porgy and Bess, "Summertime."
01:31 - I mean--
01:33 - Miles Davis, Gil Evans.
01:34 (jazz music)
01:36 - Why that one specifically?
01:43 - Well, it's foundational to me because it was one
01:46 of the first albums that I ever recall listening to
01:50 because it was my parents' collection,
01:52 it was one of their album collections,
01:54 and it was one of the albums that I actually,
01:56 when I went to college, I took.
01:58 - Oh, wow.
01:59 - I stole it.
02:00 - I was gonna say, did they know that you had taken it?
02:03 - Once I told them, once I was already--
02:04 - You were already just calling them--
02:06 - Oh, by the way.
02:07 - So you grew up in a jazz house, though?
02:09 - I wouldn't say that.
02:11 I grew up, and my parents, that was one of the styles
02:14 of music that they listened to, so there was
02:16 Cannonball Adderley in the collection,
02:18 there was Miles Davis in the collection,
02:20 there was Sarah Vaughan in the collection,
02:21 Carmen McRae, there was a lot of, just a lot of
02:25 the real standard bearers of the art form.
02:27 - And this was what was playing, though, at home?
02:29 - Yeah, yeah.
02:30 - 'Cause my house was like a Motown house, specifically.
02:32 - It was a Motown house, too.
02:33 But I think it was what I played more,
02:35 and it was what I was really drawn to more
02:38 than anything else, and I started playing sax
02:40 in elementary school.
02:42 It was one of the things that you could do in school.
02:43 It was like, do you wanna play an instrument?
02:44 I was like, yeah, I'll play that.
02:46 What do you wanna play?
02:47 Sax.
02:48 It was a lark.
02:48 It wasn't really--
02:49 - It wasn't like, this is what's playing at home.
02:51 So I'm gonna choose it.
02:52 - I kind of found it after I started playing the sax.
02:56 - When did the acting start?
02:57 - Kind of in elementary school.
02:58 I had an elementary school teacher
02:59 who really was the music teacher,
03:01 not the music teacher, not the instrumental music teacher,
03:03 but started singing then in the choirs
03:06 and started doing plays there.
03:08 I was famously Templeton the Rat in Charlotte's Willow.
03:10 I know you've--
03:11 - I've done my research.
03:12 - I know you know that, and you saw the awards,
03:13 and you saw the write-ups.
03:15 - It is a legendary performance.
03:17 - Yeah, I'm glad you said it.
03:18 I didn't wanna have to say it.
03:20 So that was when that really started.
03:21 And then all through junior high school,
03:23 it was just music.
03:24 There was no acting program to speak of.
03:27 And then in high school, it all sort of came back together.
03:30 - And you've talked about sort of letting jazz
03:34 go as a professional pursuit.
03:35 But the love of the thing persisted.
03:40 - Yeah, I knew that I was--
03:41 - How did that decision happen?
03:43 Like, how does one say at the end of high school,
03:45 like, well, I'm really good at this thing.
03:47 I'm also maybe really good at this thing,
03:49 but I'm gonna do this one, not this one.
03:52 - Because the one I didn't do was infinitely harder
03:55 than the one that I was going to do.
03:58 I grew up with real jazz musicians that are like,
04:00 you know, went on to have careers,
04:02 Ron Miles, Stephon Jackson,
04:03 like people that really were about it.
04:05 I saw what it took to do that.
04:07 And I realized that I was not going to shed.
04:11 I'm like, I'm not going to be sitting in a room
04:13 for eight hours studying theory,
04:15 and doing soul-fesh, and running scales.
04:17 And you're gonna have to be able to do that.
04:19 And also, it's not a chore to them.
04:21 Do you know what I mean?
04:22 - Right.
04:23 - They have to be talked into doing other things.
04:25 It's like, no, you have to go outside
04:26 and put the piano away for a minute.
04:28 You have to stop playing right now.
04:29 That's how they approach music.
04:30 For me, it was always a grind.
04:32 (upbeat music)
04:35 - Let's jump to another solo.
04:43 - Another solo, where should we go now?
04:45 Let's listen to Oscar Peterson's solo.
04:47 - Let's listen to it.
04:48 - Let's listen to some Oscar Peterson.
04:50 - 'Cause this one's ridiculous.
04:52 (upbeat music)
04:54 So what is it about this solo?
05:00 - It's emblematic of his style, clearly.
05:04 Very rhythmic, and no matter how fast he plays,
05:07 it's always melodic.
05:08 The structure of it, it makes sense.
05:11 It's a story, it feels like it's storytelling.
05:13 It's not just pyrotechnics.
05:15 I feel like, anyway, that it's very,
05:18 it makes sense, it's very logical
05:19 within the framework of the song.
05:20 - So what's so interesting to me too about jazz
05:22 is it is definitely, you're not just playing the notes
05:25 on the sheet music.
05:26 There is an incredible amount of preparation
05:29 and just hardcore musical knowledge that goes into it.
05:33 But on the day, they're improvising.
05:37 They're doing something different.
05:39 And that's the part of, my brain can't process that.
05:42 - I couldn't either.
05:43 I understood it in a very basic way,
05:45 and I dipped my toe in it,
05:47 and I, of course, had improv, I was in jazz bands
05:49 and all throughout school and everything.
05:51 But I knew there was another level
05:53 to what they were doing,
05:54 and the language that they were able to speak
05:57 that I wasn't able to do.
05:59 I was intimidated in many ways by that,
06:02 by theory, by scales, by music.
06:04 A lot of it's math.
06:05 So if you could make that connection,
06:08 you could probably be very good at that
06:10 because you understand what a minor key is,
06:12 what a major key is, what Dorian is,
06:13 what Lydian is, what Mixolydian is,
06:15 why those intervals are what they are.
06:17 - But it feels almost specific to jazz.
06:20 - I think it is.
06:21 I think it's as complicated and structured
06:25 and elevated as classical music.
06:27 But that's the most,
06:29 all the way back to the first thing you said.
06:31 I feel the most engaged and alive when that's happening
06:35 because there's no planning,
06:37 because you don't know what's gonna happen,
06:38 because it forces you to listen and be present
06:42 and in the moment almost more
06:44 than any other thing I've ever,
06:46 except parenting.
06:47 - What's wild in who you talk about that is
06:49 I feel like a lot of actors talk about the craft of acting
06:52 in a similar way.
06:53 Now, there's no scales and theory necessarily
06:55 in the same way, but again, a lot of it is
06:58 prep, prep, prep, prep, prep.
07:00 But on the day, you gotta be in the moment,
07:02 you gotta be in the pocket.
07:03 You're listening to what other people are doing
07:05 and you're responding.
07:07 I'm curious how your acting education
07:11 and your early in your career,
07:13 was there overlap in sort of how you thought about that
07:16 or were they completely divorced in your mind?
07:18 - I think I felt it sort of like kinesthetically.
07:21 I understood that there is within the framework of the words
07:25 and within the framework of the text and the play
07:27 and those are the words.
07:29 That's what you're saying.
07:30 But moment to moment,
07:32 how you might engage with another person
07:35 is only dictated by what's happening in the moment.
07:38 And if you get something different,
07:39 the way you're coming back at them is different.
07:42 And a really, really smart acting teacher
07:45 said to me, and I think it's really true,
07:49 that you're only trying to ever do one of three things
07:53 when you're engaging in a scene with somebody.
07:55 You're trying to make them feel something,
07:58 make them understand something, or make them do something.
08:02 And sometimes it's a combination of those,
08:05 but anything else is just, you're not really acting.
08:08 You're not really trying to get your goals.
08:11 And you're always trying to go after your goal as an actor.
08:13 And there's different ways to get that goal.
08:15 And there's different outcomes
08:17 you're trying to get to musically too
08:18 when you're improv-ing.
08:19 But it's about being in the moment, being present,
08:22 listening, responding, reacting,
08:23 all those things correlate to me.
08:25 - So I'm getting my notes
08:26 'cause I wanna go through a list
08:28 of some of your early credits.
08:29 So you started working basically as a working actor
08:32 while you were at Kyle Mars, right?
08:35 So Colors, Meteor Man, Fame, L.A. Law,
08:40 Hill Street Blues, Night Court, Booker, China Beach,
08:43 the Golden Girls spinoff, Golden Palace,
08:47 with the Golden Girls and Cheech Moran.
08:48 - Correct.
08:49 - And famously, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.
08:52 - Mm-hmm.
08:52 - I'm sorry, we didn't hear you come in.
08:54 Jeffrey, did you leave the door open?
08:56 - Well, no.
08:57 - Well, then I guess we must have left it unlocked.
08:59 - Well, no.
09:00 [audience laughing]
09:01 - They were gonna give you a spinoff to Fresh Prince.
09:04 - Yeah, they did.
09:04 I shot a pilot.
09:05 - Where is that pilot now?
09:07 - I think you can actually find it online.
09:09 - Is it online?
09:10 - I just, it popped up and I was like,
09:11 oh wow, here's the pilot.
09:13 - And you also wrote the music for the intro?
09:15 Is that true?
09:16 - Yeah.
09:16 - Tell me more.
09:18 - Well, at that point, I was doing a lot in studios.
09:23 I thought I was going to, again,
09:24 I was never completely dropped the idea of music.
09:27 It was always in the sidecar.
09:29 And I wanted to take a crack at the theme song.
09:32 They're like, go ahead.
09:33 [upbeat music]
09:36 ♪ Some folks may say there's only one way ♪
09:39 ♪ To live your life ♪
09:42 ♪ Live your life ♪
09:43 - So myself and my producing friend, Kenny Finch,
09:47 wrote the theme song.
09:48 And it's the one, I don't know that ultimately
09:50 we would have used it.
09:51 - But that is the theme song that was all the internet.
09:54 - I'm singing and you hear it, yeah.
09:56 [upbeat music]
10:04 - So "Devil in a Blue Dress" was probably a turning point,
10:08 I feel like career wise.
10:10 Because you were all anybody was talking about
10:13 coming out of that movie.
10:14 I mean, the movie was incredible.
10:16 Didn't realize you had also worked with Carl Franklin prior.
10:18 - Yeah.
10:19 - Was it his thesis film?
10:20 - Yep.
10:21 - So his AFI thesis starred Don Cheadle.
10:25 - Which is why I almost didn't get "Devil in a Blue Dress."
10:27 - What do you mean?
10:28 - Well, because Carl sort of had cemented in his mind
10:31 that I was that--
10:32 - Kid.
10:33 - Kid that he had worked with and he never saw me
10:36 as a dude that could ever be Denzel's contemporary.
10:39 - Right.
10:39 - And you know, Denzel's 10 years older than me.
10:41 So he's like, it's just not going to work.
10:43 And then Denzel's like, well, I'll age down five years,
10:45 you'll age him up five years
10:47 and then we'll be contemporaries.
10:48 It's not a big deal.
10:49 - So Denzel had to convince Carl.
10:51 - I mean, we could do a whole thing
10:53 on how it actually came together,
10:54 which is how a lot of my careers come together.
10:57 And one of these songs, which is "Personal Mountains,"
11:00 also plays a part in this.
11:01 You wanna, should we listen to it?
11:02 - Yeah, let's listen to that now.
11:03 - "Personal Mountains," Keith Jarrett.
11:05 (upbeat music)
11:08 - Explain what you mean, how this all ties together.
11:14 - I'll try to do it really fast, but it's hard
11:16 'cause it's a very long story.
11:17 My agent read the book, said, this is you.
11:21 You've got to get in on it.
11:22 Everybody in the town and all over the country
11:24 was going in on this part, brain and a mouse.
11:26 I couldn't get an audition.
11:27 She's like, doesn't make any sense.
11:28 You know, Carl, you did the movie together.
11:30 Why isn't he calling?
11:31 I said, well, he knows me if he thinks I'm right for it,
11:33 then he'll call me.
11:34 The day that I heard that it was coming,
11:36 I had started listening to this album
11:39 and something just made sense.
11:41 Again, I can't tell you why, I don't know why.
11:43 It's some cosmic esoteric, whatever,
11:45 that the "Personal Mountains" made sense.
11:48 This, I'm like, this would be a personal mountain for me
11:51 if I climb this mountain.
11:52 And I know it's gonna be life-changing
11:54 if this happens for me.
11:55 I know it's going to change everything,
11:56 but I don't have to go out for it.
11:58 I don't have to go to it.
11:59 All I'm supposed to do is my work.
12:01 All I'm supposed to do is focus on me
12:03 and it's gonna come to me if it's meant to come to me.
12:05 I'm not chasing it.
12:06 And I listened to this track.
12:08 This is the only piece of music I listened to for months.
12:13 Literally, it's all I listened to.
12:15 So months went by, months went by.
12:17 Couldn't get an audition, couldn't get an audition.
12:19 She was like, you gotta call him.
12:20 I'm like, I'm not calling him.
12:22 - And that's a long, I mean,
12:23 they were going to everybody then.
12:25 - Everybody.
12:25 So I was in a ear, nose and throat doctor's reception area.
12:30 - Not where I thought this story was going.
12:33 - You can't.
12:34 You could never anticipate it.
12:35 And the room got very, very crowded.
12:39 And I kept moving further and further toward the door
12:41 as more people came in.
12:43 And the door opens and bangs into me and it's Carl.
12:47 And this two seconds after he walks in the room,
12:49 the receptionist came out and said,
12:51 there's too many people in this room.
12:52 Who's the last one in here?
12:54 And she pointed at Carl and me.
12:55 And she goes, you two go in that room.
12:57 - What?
12:58 Yeah, that is the universe.
13:01 - And the two of us went in a room by ourselves
13:04 and just caught up on the old times,
13:06 what's going on, what's going on.
13:07 He said, you know I'm doing this movie.
13:09 I was like, yeah, I've heard about the movie.
13:11 And he just dropped it.
13:12 And we went on and talked about other stuff.
13:14 And then the next day my agent called and said,
13:16 I don't know what happened, but he wants to see you.
13:18 I was like, yeah, of course.
13:20 - Hotel Rwanda, obviously Academy Award nominated for it.
13:24 Paul obviously just got released from detention.
13:27 What is that like for you as an actor who played him?
13:30 Like it's gotta be surreal having played a real life figure.
13:35 And then to have him be detained.
13:38 Talk to me about that.
13:39 - Well, the experience was one thing
13:42 and what it did for my career was one thing,
13:46 but what dwarfed that in many ways is what it triggered
13:50 as far as me being an activist
13:52 and learning about what was happening
13:54 and being pulled into this stream of activism
13:57 that was already happening before I got there,
13:58 but sort of being pushed to the front of it.
14:00 Like, oh, finally we have a mouthpiece.
14:03 - What was that like though?
14:04 - It's learning like, oh, this is how I can be,
14:08 this is my function in this space.
14:09 And I was like, oh, this is how that works.
14:11 When I show up to this thing, people can rally around that.
14:15 And I'm not the expert on this.
14:17 I'm someone who's learning as I go along,
14:20 but the fact that I'm doing it while people
14:22 are putting a camera in front of me
14:24 and putting a mic in front of me
14:25 allows me to throw that focus on them.
14:27 And the day he was kidnapped, let's just call it what it is,
14:32 I was on the calls to the State Department
14:34 and the White House and I was trying to find ways
14:38 to get him out with his family
14:40 and other people that were working on his behalf too.
14:42 But again, it's like, yeah, step up.
14:46 - And you stepped up, I feel like, in other ways too.
14:48 I mean, your "Saturday Night Live" appearance,
14:49 which was a subtle, just the T-shirt.
14:52 But I mean, how do you think about using those moments?
14:55 Is it just like, look, this is a moment
14:57 where the cameras are on me.
14:58 I should make sure they're on somebody else too, or?
15:01 - Basically, yeah.
15:02 But I never expected to be in this position.
15:07 I wanted to act because I thought it was fun
15:10 and it was interesting and I wanted to get girls.
15:12 But I really was scratching an itch
15:15 in something that was really interesting to me.
15:17 I never thought that it would be beneficial to other people
15:21 and help bring things to the fore
15:24 that were struggling to be brought to the fore.
15:26 So that's how it's important to me to use it.
15:29 If it was just like trying to get to the front of the line
15:32 and get best seats at a restaurant
15:33 or free tickets to a game or free swag,
15:37 then it's like, that's not why to have the light.
15:41 To have the light is to use the light.
15:42 - So let's talk about "Secret Invasion."
15:45 - Wonderful, it's out, yeah.
15:46 - Let's talk about superheroes for a minute.
15:50 I'm just curious what it's like to prepare for a role
15:52 where your job is literally saving the world.
15:54 - Steroids.
15:55 - I'm obviously talking about Captain Planet.
15:57 - With your powers combined, I am Captain Planet.
16:01 - Go, Planet!
16:02 - Well, Planeteers, what seems to be the problem?
16:06 - Oh, no steroids on that.
16:07 That was all in the suit.
16:08 It was all padded.
16:10 - You notoriously engaged in blue face for that role.
16:13 - So?
16:14 - Do you want to apologize to the people of Pandora?
16:16 - Nope.
16:17 - Do we think that Pandora--
16:18 - I'll do it again.
16:18 - Do we think that the people,
16:20 that Pandorans are blue because of Captain Planet?
16:22 - I don't care about why they're blue.
16:25 I'm not into Pandoran rights.
16:27 I'll do it again, dare me.
16:29 - Cancellation incoming.
16:31 - Keep it blue.
16:32 - Okay, but seriously, on "Secret Invasion,"
16:34 this blew my mind.
16:36 I feel like you and Samuel L. Jackson have been working
16:40 for as long as I have been aware of actors.
16:43 - Okay, take it easy.
16:44 Calm down.
16:45 - You're not that much older, like younger than me.
16:47 - How old are you?
16:48 - Why, what does it matter?
16:49 You want to do the Kevin Hart thing?
16:50 - I'm trying.
16:51 - Okay, go again.
16:51 - How old are you?
16:52 - Well, you know, right now I'm 57 years old.
16:55 - Damn.
16:56 I'm sorry.
16:59 I'm sorry.
16:59 Kevin did it.
17:00 I thought maybe I could do it.
17:01 - It wasn't that good.
17:02 Do you want to try again?
17:04 - I--
17:04 - Can we get a take two on this?
17:05 - I think--
17:06 - No, let's try again.
17:07 - I think we can move on.
17:08 - No, I think we should try again.
17:09 - I want to talk about Sam Jackson.
17:10 - All right, we'll move on.
17:11 All right, this is the first time y'all have acted together.
17:13 How is that possible?
17:14 - I don't know.
17:16 We complained about it to the Marvel people every movie.
17:19 Like--
17:20 - But I mean, separate from the Marvel people.
17:21 Like, I literally, I could not believe it
17:23 when I saw that that was true.
17:25 I went on Google trying to disprove it like an idiot.
17:28 - It's the truth.
17:29 I think it's his fault, personally.
17:30 If I'm gonna lay blame at somebody's feet.
17:33 I think he was scared.
17:34 - I mean, wouldn't be the first one.
17:37 - Correct.
17:38 Facts, as the kids say.
17:40 - But how was the experience?
17:41 - Terrible.
17:42 Actually, it was great.
17:43 Sam and I have been friends for many years.
17:46 We golfed together.
17:48 I've seen him on stage.
17:49 Sam's a great actor.
17:50 No BS.
17:52 You know, we had a great time.
17:54 I think no caps, I'm supposed to say.
17:56 - As the kids are saying.
17:57 - As the kids.
17:58 - Are the kids even saying that anymore?
17:59 I don't even know.
17:59 - I don't know, they've probably moved on to something else.
18:00 - I would assume so.
18:01 (upbeat music)
18:09 - Having done almost everything,
18:10 is there anything else you wanna do?
18:12 - Listen to another track.
18:13 - Let's do it.
18:15 - Let's listen to Jocko's "Portrait of Tracy"
18:17 off of the self-titled Jocko Pistorius album.
18:19 (upbeat music)
18:22 - Okay, so why Jocko and why this specific Jocko solo?
18:31 - Because this is the first time
18:34 for, I think, a lot of people
18:36 that they heard harmonics as music.
18:41 Harmonics for bass player,
18:43 for a lot of string players, guitar players too,
18:45 are mostly just used to tune the instrument.
18:48 And Jocko, for him, it sounded like music.
18:52 He would say, "Never just play scales to play scales.
18:54 "Play your scales, but always make it musical."
18:57 And to hear the invention in that sort of creative mind
19:01 of this person who changed
19:03 and revolutionized bass playing for everyone,
19:06 and still, again, that's foundational.
19:09 - Well, it's interesting,
19:09 'cause it sounds like nothing that had really come before it.
19:12 - And it wasn't like anything.
19:13 No one had ever, I don't believe,
19:15 instead of, maybe there were some circles inside
19:18 and people had heard him doing it,
19:19 but no one had, on a grand scale, had heard anyone go,
19:21 "I'm gonna turn all these harmonics into a song."
19:24 - I mean, that's amazing.
19:25 So let's talk about the rest of your career.
19:29 Again--
19:29 - Why do you say the rest of it?
19:31 - Well, I mean, the rest continuing on.
19:33 (sighs)
19:34 It's not over yet.
19:35 This interview might kill it, but--
19:37 - You should really think about how you frame shit.
19:40 - The ongoing nature of your career.
19:43 - Better.
19:44 - I mean, I feel like you've done everything.
19:47 You've worked with everyone.
19:49 You're one of like 50 living people
19:51 that have like an EGOT nomination,
19:53 which puts you in like a category
19:54 with like Sidney Poitier and Meryl Streep.
19:57 - I didn't know that.
19:59 - You've played basketball with the president,
20:02 and you keep working.
20:03 You've been working since you were early 20s, late teens.
20:07 No one has a bad thing to say about you.
20:10 - We're gonna change that.
20:12 - But like, but how?
20:13 Like on a macro sense, how?
20:15 I know it sounds ridiculous, but like--
20:17 - I don't know.
20:18 - That is extraordinary.
20:20 - Is it?
20:21 I mean--
20:22 - There are not a lot of other Don Chios running around.
20:23 - I guess there aren't, and I don't know how.
20:26 - Post facto.
20:27 Not even like you could have figured out like a plan
20:29 that would have gotten you here, but like--
20:30 - Right, 'cause there's no plan.
20:31 You've hit upon it.
20:32 There is no plan.
20:33 You keep your head down, you keep working.
20:37 I think I've been very fortunate
20:38 that the things that I was drawn to went,
20:41 and that I've been blessed
20:44 and been very right place, right time.
20:46 I mean, think about that story I told you.
20:48 Those kinds of things, quite honestly,
20:50 have happened for me, to me, over and over and over again,
20:55 and I have not tried to orchestrate it.
20:59 I've just tried to be very genuine
21:01 about the things that I find that are compelling to me
21:06 and interesting to me,
21:07 and luckily, other people find them the same,
21:12 and they get made.
21:15 A lot of people are drawn to things and attracted to things
21:18 and put their energy into things that don't go,
21:21 and fighting uphill, and I've had those.
21:23 Miles took 10 years to make, so that's like--
21:26 - And you had to write it, and direct it, and star in it.
21:28 - And produce it, and crowdfund for it.
21:29 - And learn the trumpet for it,
21:31 as I just learned, which is crazy.
21:33 - All that.
21:33 - I just, yeah, I think,
21:34 let me just put this on the record,
21:35 'cause I don't know that any people realize this.
21:37 I knew that you were a jazz musician of some talent.
21:41 I did not realize that you learned to play the trumpet
21:44 in order to play Miles Davis.
21:46 - The first time I actually picked up the trumpet
21:48 to play it for a role was when I did Rat Pack
21:52 and played Sammy Davis Jr.
21:53 - Okay.
21:54 - And he played the trumpet, he played the drums,
21:56 he did gun twirling, he played the piano,
21:58 obviously he sang, he tap danced,
22:00 and interestingly enough, I was offered that role
22:04 very early in the casting process of that movie,
22:07 but they never addressed the racism
22:08 that Sammy had to deal with.
22:10 They never addressed how he was the butt of all the jokes
22:13 with all the, in the Rat Pack,
22:15 and the scenes were in there,
22:16 but they never had him reacting to it and responding to it,
22:19 and I said, "It has to be there.
22:20 "You can't just--"
22:21 - Yeah, you can't escape that.
22:22 - Something has to happen.
22:24 So they kept kicking that can down the road,
22:27 and so I was like, "Well, I'm not gonna say yes
22:29 "until it gets addressed."
22:31 And then, very last minute, they said,
22:33 "How about if we do it like this in this scene,
22:35 "and we do this?"
22:36 And I said, "How about if on stage,
22:37 "after they make the joke, just put a camera behind
22:39 "and let me turn and let me really show you
22:43 "what the feeling is."
22:44 It's even better than writing a scene about it.
22:46 Let's see it.
22:47 - Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
22:48 My name is Sammy Davis Jr.
22:50 [audience laughing]
22:52 - Hurry up here, Sam.
22:53 Your watermelon's getting warm.
22:54 [audience laughing]
22:57 - And then he could turn around and put his face back on.
23:01 It's Pagliacci, and he's back performing, and it's all good.
23:04 Said, "Let's just pull the curtain back and show that."
23:06 They're like, "Okay, we'll do that.
23:07 "Are you gonna do the part?"
23:08 And I was like, "Okay, I'll do the part."
23:10 Now, what I did to myself, though,
23:12 was painted myself into a corner now,
23:14 'cause I had to learn trumpet,
23:16 I had to get tap dancing lessons,
23:18 I had to get drum lessons, I had to get--
23:19 So I basically just threw myself back in school,
23:22 which was great, so it was just--
23:23 - What's the most obscure talent
23:25 that you have born of your acting career?
23:28 I mean, "Gun Turtling" has gotta be up there.
23:30 - Sure, let's go with that.
23:31 - All right, fair enough.
23:31 - That I had, because--
23:33 - You couldn't do it now, if we could fast.
23:35 - I couldn't do it now.
23:36 I'd shoot you right in the leg.
23:37 - Are you gonna do an album at some point?
23:39 - I'd love to do it.
23:40 I'm not gonna play on it,
23:41 but I would just love to curate it.
23:42 - You're not gonna play on it, though.
23:43 - I'm not gonna play on it.
23:44 You don't want me to play on it.
23:46 We wanna hear great music.
23:47 - Like a triangle, like somewhere in the back?
23:49 - There you go.
23:49 - I'm just saying, just be on the track.
23:51 - Triangle.
23:52 - But yeah, curate, like just, I mean,
23:53 I feel like you could just put those calls in,
23:55 put people in the studio and just say, "Just go."
23:58 - And they have to pay 'em.
23:59 - You got money.
24:00 - Get out of my pocket.
24:01 How much, what are you talking about?
24:02 - I don't know, you're in the "Avengers" franchise.
24:04 I'm just assuming.
24:05 - That money's spoken for.
24:07 - Fair enough.
24:08 You got kids.
24:08 - And I have four elephants.
24:10 - This is the stuff people don't know.
24:11 - Yeah.
24:12 - Don, thank you for coming.
24:13 - Thank you for having me.
24:15 (upbeat music)
24:17 (upbeat music)