Nigeria's former Minister of Foreign Affairs wades into the ECOWAS - NIGER crisis following the military coup in Niger.
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00:00 If you don't want to become involved
00:04 in international affairs,
00:06 then don't join international organizations.
00:11 Resign from all your international organizations.
00:16 I thought this was what we were criticizing Jonathan for.
00:22 I thought this was what we were criticizing Buhari for,
00:27 that in the past 16 years,
00:29 Nigeria has been absent on the global scene.
00:34 Come on, we've got to be consistent on this matter.
00:38 And it will have nothing to do with our body language
00:42 towards whoever is holding that post.
00:46 Is the president of, sorry, is the chairman of ECOWAS,
00:52 is the president of Nigeria.
00:56 Now, you may be wanting to make a distinction
00:59 where there is no distinction,
01:01 but the fact you must bear in mind
01:03 is that Nigeria is just one country in ECOWAS
01:08 with one vote.
01:13 If he manages to persuade his colleagues
01:18 that this is the position that ECOWAS should take,
01:24 because this is the position he believes in,
01:28 that is the way politics is played.
01:32 If you are chairman of a party,
01:34 and you go to your party's national working committee
01:41 or national executive council,
01:45 they will be expecting leadership from you.
01:48 And if you don't show that leadership,
01:51 you are going to get a waffling of your political party.
01:55 The same thing goes for an international institution.
02:00 In fact, that is what the concept of sovereignty
02:06 is all about.
02:07 They are not committed to following you like sheep.
02:12 They all have their national interests
02:20 and they will take their decisions
02:23 on whether to support a resolution
02:27 or oppose that resolution
02:29 based on an assessment of their national interest.
02:33 If we were paying the budgets of ECOWAS countries,
02:38 then you could say they had no choice,
02:40 but we are not doing that.
02:43 So to that extent,
02:45 President Tinogo has one vote in ECOWAS,
02:48 even as chairman,
02:50 and I'm not sure he has a casting vote.
02:52 If ECOWAS end up being 50-50,
02:56 I don't think he has a casting vote.
02:58 That doesn't happen in international institutions.
03:00 The others will turn their back.
03:02 They will not support you.
03:06 So ECOWAS has taken a stand on Niger.
03:16 That stand was not taken in vacuum.
03:20 ECOWAS has a charter.
03:24 A charter is an aggregation of principles
03:30 that you all signed onto.
03:36 If somebody is going to ask ECOWAS to do something
03:39 that is not in the charter,
03:41 this will be pointed out on a point of order,
03:44 Mr. Chairman.
03:45 This is not part of our charter,
03:48 but if it is part of their charter,
03:50 then they debate it.
03:52 And if the majority would then, I already did.
03:56 But if the majority says,
03:58 well, it may be part of our charter,
04:00 but we don't want to interpret it that way,
04:03 then they will vote it down.
04:06 I haven't spent all my life
04:11 being a foreign policy analyst or scholar or practitioner.
04:16 So now, we wish for a Nigerian foreign policy of Owa and Beg.
04:24 Our policy has to stand for something.
04:30 We must be noted for something.
04:35 If you disagree with what we are noted for,
04:38 or you don't want us to be noted for anything,
04:41 say so.
04:42 Given my status in this country,
04:46 don't expect me to get onto a platform
04:52 and demarcate my precedent.
04:57 When I demarcate my precedent,
05:00 especially on a foreign policy issue,
05:03 I demarcate my country.
05:05 And when I demarcate my country,
05:08 I'm demarcating all of us.
05:11 And that is why there was a time in the United States
05:16 when the principle of foreign policy by the political class
05:22 was that partisanship stops at the water level.
05:27 Once you cross the waters,
05:35 then partisanship stops,
05:37 and we all rally around the president, commander in chief.
05:42 And that is why American foreign policy
05:47 had that unanimity of support.
05:51 Yes, now the United States has abandoned that.
05:56 Kudos to them.
05:57 Good luck to them.
05:58 Even though I find out that even in this day and age
06:03 when public opinion in America is divided 50/50
06:08 on a lot of issues,
06:10 they all still line up behind Biden
06:13 on support for Ukraine and on support for NATO.
06:18 So let's get that clear.
06:23 I will explain what I believe
06:28 the policies of the president of Nigeria is,
06:33 on Niger.
06:36 Whether I am in favor or not, I will say so,
06:42 but I'm not going to demarcate my president
06:47 or demarcate my country.
06:50 I think we've misinterpreted the concept of seven days.
07:01 At the expiry of the seven days,
07:04 it does not mean that boots are going to be on the ground.
07:07 You yourself have pointed out,
07:09 and quite legitimately and quite accurately,
07:14 that there is no rapid response force for ECOWAS
07:18 or for the EU for that matter.
07:21 Number two, there is no standing by force yet,
07:25 although the ECOWAS was supposed to have set up one
07:28 long time ago,
07:29 but for financial reasons,
07:32 nobody wanted to put money down
07:35 and Nigeria was not prepared at that time
07:38 to put the money down,
07:41 to establish a stand by force.
07:44 So at the expiry of the seven days,
07:48 it does not mean that boots are going to be marching
07:51 into Niger.
07:52 At the end of the seven days,
07:59 even conversation with the military regime in Niger
08:04 could be ongoing.
08:12 I said this on the Arise TV,
08:15 that diplomacy doesn't stop.
08:19 With the, diplomacy doesn't stop.
08:27 Simply because you put on the ground,
08:32 and what did you call the seven day,
08:38 the ultimatum.
08:39 Before that ultimatum even expires,
08:42 I will expect that there would be conversations
08:47 behind the line,
08:51 behind the chair,
08:54 that contacts,
08:56 whether by state actors or non-state actors,
08:59 would be taking place.
09:03 So that none of the parties would lose face.
09:08 And if there is going to be any concession made,
09:16 it does not have to be announced on the international media
09:21 or on the local media.
09:24 I expect that to be taking place,
09:27 and I do expect them to tell us.
09:30 But in fact, as of this morning,
09:33 it has been announced that a delegation of ECOWAS,
09:39 although there will continue to be this misapplication
09:49 of which is ECOWAS, which is Nigeria.
09:53 But I know as of this morning,
09:55 it's been announced that the regime in Niami
10:00 has agreed to receive a delegation
10:03 made up of the former head of state,
10:07 General Abdullah Salam Abubakar,
10:10 and the Sultan of Sokoto,
10:14 who even though we call him the Sultan of Sokoto,
10:18 but in fact, is the head of the Muslims in West Africa,
10:22 and commands a lot of respect.
10:25 He has gravitas all across West Africa.
10:29 We'll be going, and the new regime in Niami
10:35 has agreed to receive them.
10:41 That is the kind of thing which would have started
10:45 before even the expiry of the seven days.
10:48 And at the expiry of the seven days,
10:51 nothing prevents ECOWAS to say,
10:54 "We are in consultation,
10:57 we are having a discussion with the regime there.
11:02 Talks are taking place,
11:04 and that is part of what we expect will be happening
11:09 even at the expiration of the seven days."
11:12 But the seven days, expiration of the seven days,
11:15 does not mean votes on the ground.
11:17 That's not the way diplomacy works.
11:20 As long as there is movement,
11:23 I won't say that you suspend the seven days,
11:28 but it is understood there's not going to be
11:32 any military action at the end of the seven days.
11:35 And in any case, it's going to take you more than seven days
11:40 to put, to amass troops on the border
11:45 between ECOWAS countries and Niami.
11:51 But the fact that talks are taking place
11:54 will also not stop your military experts
11:59 from continuing also to map out what will be their reaction
12:05 if the talks fails, what they have said.
12:09 - The military approach is not what has created
12:13 a division in ECOWAS.
12:16 The coups that have taken place
12:18 in those three or four countries
12:21 are what have created the division within ECOWAS.
12:26 And you don't expect that the military regimes in ECOWAS
12:31 are going to support ECOWAS.
12:35 I expect them to back up the military regime in Niami,
12:40 especially in their own national interest.
12:48 Because if military action takes place
12:53 and there is a resolution of democracy in Niger,
12:59 I'm sure they will then expect
13:02 that they will be the next targets.
13:05 Therefore, it is in their best interest
13:09 to make sure that there is no military incursion
13:14 into Niami and that that will be the way they will be safe.
13:18 So there is a congruity of interest
13:22 between them and Niami.
13:27 So whether they can take on ECOWAS or not,
13:32 where I will suppose you can put 10 of me
13:36 in the ring against Mohammed Ghandi,
13:39 I don't need to tell you what the result will be.
13:42 So I don't start denigrating the military prowess
13:48 of any country, but you know what that will be.
13:52 The same people who probably were very critical
13:58 of calling ECOWAS paper tiger
14:01 because it was never able to go beyond
14:03 the ordinary condemnation are now the same people,
14:07 at least in Nigeria, who are now saying,
14:10 "No, ECOWAS has no business with what is going on in Niger
14:14 and we shouldn't go beyond our usual condemnation.
14:19 You do, you are damned.
14:21 You don't do, you are damned."
14:24 I think what is different in the case of Niger
14:28 is that you have a chairman of ECOWAS
14:31 who has decided to draw the line
14:35 that there will be no more coups in West Africa,
14:40 that there will be no more coups,
14:43 that ECOWAS will not tolerate coups
14:46 or terrorism or anti-democratic acts in West Africa.
14:56 And that if this happens,
14:58 we should be prepared to march our words with action.
15:02 I think that is the difference.